Is Ken Salazar a liberal or a conservative?

Interest groups are only one indicator (4.00 / 2)

As NARAL and the Sierra Club have shown interest groups are not always a good indicator.  I would suggest also looking at Nominate scores
http://voteview.ucsd.edu/sen11...
and progressive punch which has an interesting chips are down rating (when the vote really makes a difference in the outcome)
http://www.progressivepunch.or...

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by: msobel @ Sun Nov 16, 2008 at 07:22:23 AM CST

Direct party involvement is about the only way. (3.67 / 3)

I agree that Ken Salazar needs to be replaced. One of the reasons when republicans do well is that they actually are conservatives and when democrats act like conservatives to get elected voters go for the actual conservative. I believe that's what happened in the 90's.

I find gov Ritter to be of much the same cloth, a bit more left but with a whole lot of middle in him. If the scenario plays out that Pres Obama picks Salazar for a job I don't think Ritter and the state party will pick someone whom progressives find very appealing. When Mike Miles ran for that seat he started two years before the election knocking on doors and driving the entire state to build a base. Not long before the state conventions the party anointed Ken Salazar to capitalize on the grass roots movement that Mike had helped create. The state party then did everything in their power to torpedo Miles. At the state convention they counted the votes 3 times when Mike won because they just couldn't believe it. Then the continued to support Salazar in the primary season by touting his name (often ONLY his name) in stories in the paper and press releases. Their reason is this same old tired argument of picking someone who will win.

In their opinion.

A president just got elected who beat all the odds by running a positive campaign based on hope and we're still getting the same argument of running candidates who will win. That's what lands us with a governor who is in the democratic party who would overturn Roe V. Wade in a hot second given the chance. He says he wouldn't act to make it happen but I'm willing to bed a bill to that effect wouldn't gather dust on his desk.

The point I'm trying to make is that unless progressives move up in the state party hierarchy the chances of actually getting progressive candidates through the system is practically nil. And I'm not talking one spot at the table. 50 + 1 trumps everything in this numbers game and "giving us a voice" is little better than telling us to shut up given the resultant effect.

Yes. Throw Ken Salazar out of office. Make him a DA again where his principals work to the better interest. BTW I like John Salazar's work, I think on the whole he does a good job. And let us not be afraid to support candidates that we actually believe in rather than just believing in their chances to get elected. That's what leads to these types of disappointments in the first place.  

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by: pagandenman @ Sun Nov 16, 2008 at 08:10:18 AM CST

sorry but (4.00 / 2)

unless there is a credible challenger to primary him who can raise the kind of money to compete with Salazar, we're stuck with him.  It's also possible to run a Wellstone style campaign run on shoestring, concentrating on field, but I have a feeling anyone running Salazar's reelection campaign would be smart enough to see what Obama just did and just emulate that.

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by: johne @ Sun Nov 16, 2008 at 16:02:33 PM CST

The real choice, then... (4.00 / 2)

...is between having a senior senator who has more influence and more opportunities to fink us out and a junior GOP senator who will do less damage than Kiss Ass Ken. If Salazar is the Democratic nominee, I plan to vote Green. Ken Salazar is a dishonorable man whose twisted idea of bipartisanship led him to betray his party, enable the worst excesses of the Bush administration, shred the Constitution, and perpetuate untold human misery. If the choice is between a failure as a human being and a Republican, I'm bipartisan enough not to get in the way of the Republican.

There is no elite, so take your place in the driver's seat.

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by: Stagarite @ Sun Nov 16, 2008 at 18:15:05 PM CST

[ Parent ]

You're so right (0.00 / 0)

Pete Coors would have represented us so much better.

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by: redstateblues @ Sun Nov 16, 2008 at 23:18:29 PM CST

[ Parent ]

If he were in the minority... (0.00 / 0)

...Pete Coors would do less damage than Salazar in the majority. (And, by the way, it's bad form to troll rate people you disagree with--particularly if you can't make a cogent argument for why you disagree.)

There is no elite, so take your place in the driver's seat.

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by: Stagarite @ Mon Nov 17, 2008 at 16:30:48 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Cogent? (0.00 / 0)

Kiss Ass Ken? Dishonorable man? Failure as a human being?

Maybe you should look up Cogent. I call it unproductive.

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by: redstateblues @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 09:29:52 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I won't vote (4.00 / 1)

for Salazar at any stage in the 2010 elections.  He might not have principles, but I do.  Democrats' acceptance of Salazar's voting habits is putting the party before everything else.

A Responsible Plan for Iraq: endorsed by Jared Polis

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by: WeatherDem @ Mon Nov 17, 2008 at 12:38:28 PM CST

[ Parent ]

BTW (4.00 / 1)

According to Dr. Poole's data from the 110th Senate, Salazar is more conservative than Lieberman.  However, we know it's not really about overall votes, but about a few certain really important votes related to the Iraq war, the 4th amendment, supreme court nominees, and torture.  

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by: johne @ Sun Nov 16, 2008 at 16:06:04 PM CST

Salazar... (4.00 / 3)

...voted to continue the war, for torture, and against the ancient right of judicial review. "Is he liberal or is he conservative?" is a parochial question. The right question is, "Given Ken Salazar's lack of principle, should he continue to be trusted with the people's business?" If you like endless war, torture, and indefinite detention, by all means vote for Kiss Ass Ken.  Just spare me the the Three Bears and the Porridge routine. When it really mattered, Ken Salazar fucked us. Period.

There is no elite, so take your place in the driver's seat.

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by: Stagarite @ Sun Nov 16, 2008 at 18:06:00 PM CST

I was hoping (4.00 / 2)

someone would point this out.  With due respect to ilanarama, asking whether Salazar is liberal enough or conservative enough is missing a more critical question:

Have Salazar's votes been bases on a morality that you support?  I don't support occupation, torture and rendition, illegal wiretapping or stacking the courts with pro-corporate judges.  I don't support those items on moral grounds.  There is nothing "centrist" or "bi-partisan" about voting for them.  Those votes were vile and anti-democratic, whether a Republican or a Democrat cast them.

It is severely disappointing to me that Democrats are willing to let Salazar slide on supporting the Bush agenda just because he has a (D) behind his name and now we have a Democratic President-elect.  Were we angered by Bush's policies just because he was a Con or because his policies were immoral?

A Responsible Plan for Iraq: endorsed by Jared Polis

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by: WeatherDem @ Mon Nov 17, 2008 at 12:31:30 PM CST

[ Parent ]

What we can do... (4.00 / 1)

...is make sure that (a) Salazar spends allot of money in the primary; (b) is forced to justify his conduct; and (c) spoil his chances in the general. The Salazar/DLC strategy assumes that the candidate cannot win on a coherent, progressive platform and that the only thing left is to triangulate to a 51% plurality by any means necessary. This, of course, tells us that a candidate like Salazar doesn't have a very high opinion of himself or what he's capable of bringing to the job. But, for our purposes, the 51% strategy empowers us. By triangulating, Salazar thinks that he can suck up enough R and R leaning  U votes to eek out a plurality. But to spoil Salazar's plan, all we have to do is move maybe 5% of the vote from the D column...somewhere else. In the Jeffco County Commission district race, for example, the Green vote was enough to sink Jason Bain, a very fine Democratic candidate. A Green protest vote against Salazar would be even larger, and would be the end of Kiss Ass Ken. (Note to redstateblues: this is the part where you give me the knee jerk troll rating because you can't come up with a principled, rational justification for continuing to support Salazar.)

There is no elite, so take your place in the driver's seat.

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by: Stagarite @ Mon Nov 17, 2008 at 16:59:12 PM CST

[ Parent ]

The purpose of a primary (4.00 / 1)

is exactly what you state: justify his votes and his principles.  I would go further and mention that an evaluation of his effectiveness should also be in play.  This was something that I wanted Allard to defend.  Similarly, I think Salazar's effectiveness will easily come into question.  How many filibuster threats did he stop in the 110th Congress?  How many will he stop in the 111th Congress?  How much of the people's work will continue to be held up because Salazar, Lieberman and others just want to play nicely with the Cons?

Your points about the DLC strategy is a good one.  I would add to it that in 2010, Republicans are going to make a big push about too much Democratic control of government.  If Salazar gets to the general election, I wonder how many U's will agree that a little opposition isn't a bad thing.  A measurable number of D's are also likely to consider the same thing.  That works against the DLC's 50%+1 plans.

A Responsible Plan for Iraq: endorsed by Jared Polis

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by: WeatherDem @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 12:01:19 PM CST

[ Parent ]

well, of course "liberal" and "conservative" are shorthand (4.00 / 1)

These are ratings from individual interest groups which presumably take positions on whole sets of policies.  So e.g. one person might care more about the set of ratings from the ACLU, another from the LCV.

(down in the lower left corner)

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by: ilanarama @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 10:11:43 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Salazar is one of the most conservative (0.00 / 0)

Senators in the Democratic caucus and he's closer to moderate Republicans like Collins and Snowe than he is to the progressives in his caucus.

He is far more conservative overall than Lieberman, although he plays better with others than Lieberman does.  Lieberman has made it is mission to denounce, campaign against, and publicly trash a party that most of the time on most issues he votes with.

Salazar is particularly conservative on issues of civil liberties.

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by: ohwilleke @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 15:34:59 PM CST

When you're AG (0.00 / 0)

I think being "conservative" on civil liberties goes hand in hand.

SoapBlox - the new blog framework.

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by: pacified @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 16:19:56 PM CST

[ Parent ]