Perlmutter, Mark Udall Sell Out Constitution to Vote Yes on FISA

Obama will vote for it (4.00 / 1)

He sent out a press release saying that he would try to strip immunity, bet whether or not he could, he's voting for it.

The law sunsets in 2012. In January, (God willing) we'll have a 60-seat Senate majority and a president who will sign the FISA Amendments Act of 2009 that puts in the reverse targeting protections.

Immunity can't be undone. But in the end, no judge would have upheld damages against a company doing something that the Attorney General of the United States said was legal and necessary to protect the United States. While I would have liked to see the kind of discovery that can come to light in a lawsuit, the fact is that much of the evidence is classified and will never see the light of day. Congress and the Inspector General are far better equipped to gather that kind of evidence than are plaintiff's attorneys.

Jamie Gorelick had it right on C-SPAN the other day when she said that the worst legacy of the Bush justice department's warrantless wiretapping is that companies and people now have to question whether the Attorney General of the United States is asking them to break the law. That's never been the case in all of American history, but now it is. And that sucks.

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by: janus303 @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 16:08:31 PM CDT

And as a result (4.00 / 3)

I am leaving his campaign as of right now. I'll vote for him in the general, but until then, not one more dime, not one more phone call, not one more door knock. Not anything. I know he'll get there in the end, but he'll do it without me.

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by: Phil In Denver @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 17:06:20 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not the point (4.00 / 3)

Damages against these companies has never been the point of lawsuits filed by groups like the Electronic Frontier Foundation.  The point was to use the suits as a vehicle to expose the government's illegal conduct.  The suits would have operated as a significant disincentive to both the government and telecoms to ever again violate the Constitution.  That last avenue for finding out who got spied on, when, how, and to what degree, is now going to be closed forever.

Casey Mulligan

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by: leveller @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 18:06:49 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think you just restated my point (4.00 / 1)

The discovery process may have been valuable, though I imagine it would have descended into a protracted fight about classified material.

However the bill does call for a comprehensive review of what happened, and the whole immunity provision was written in such a contorted way that there is the possibility that a court could find it unconstitutional. The ACLU certainly thinks it's unconstitutional.

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by: janus303 @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 18:46:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Good point (4.00 / 2)

Thus providing another rationale for electing Obama--he's more likely to appoint Justices to the SCOTUS who would find unconstitutional the very legislation he supported.  Who knows, maybe this is part of a detailed plan on his part--he wins guarantees from the Senators that they will shuttle his appointments through, in exchange for his support now.

Casey Mulligan

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by: leveller @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 19:12:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

the could've used our own (4.00 / 5)

Qwest as a reason to stand up to the 23%-ers. There is just no politcal downside to this unless you're afraid of a lying Republican.

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by: Zappatero @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 20:03:15 PM CDT

Liberty and justice for all... (4.00 / 7)

Offer void where prohibited by law.
Limited time offer only.
May not apply in all states.
Prices may vary.

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by: Ralphie @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 21:22:24 PM CDT

you're so right (4.00 / 2)

Udall sold us out.  I called.  I had other people call.  I blogged.  I care.  He doesn't.  Where's the other guy running for senate?  We need a progressive and not this corporate sellout.

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by: dburanen @ Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 21:34:55 PM CDT

Udall another spineless Dem like Salazar (4.00 / 1)

just what we need - two Senators weak on civil liberties.  It's disgusting -- Udall's cousin, also running for Senate in NM, didn't have any trouble finding his spine on the FISA vote.

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by: dcb @ Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 20:30:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

More on ColoradoPols about this (0.00 / 0)

http://www.coloradopols.com/sh...

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by: DavidThi808 @ Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 23:18:22 PM CDT

John Dean on Oberman Has a Different Take on This (4.00 / 2)

There appears to be an opening to permit later prosecution of the telecoms which Obama could exploit after gaining office, thereby retaining the leverage to obtain discovery about the whole program.  Read about it here:
http://dailykos.com/storyonly/...

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by: saindenver @ Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 10:29:41 AM CDT

If true, (4.00 / 1)

then that would be great news.  I am highly skeptical, but, his staff is alleged to have "pored over" the legislation all night last Thursday.  Wouldn't that be hilarious if the drafter's f'ed up and left this avenue open by mistake?

Casey Mulligan

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by: leveller @ Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 16:38:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

So disappointed in Perlmutter and Udall and Salazar! (4.00 / 1)

Sorry, they get no more money from me!

Had enough of these sellouts.

Better Democrats needed now!

Was bad enough that Salazar voted for the Military Commissions Act.  Now that the Supreme Court has said the law is unconstitutional what's his lame excuse?  What Senator, do we need more conservative judges that think like you do???

Now 'supposedly' progressive Dems like Perlmutter and Udall follow his lead on FISA?

What is wrong with these folks?  Didn't they ever read about the founding fathers and the Constitution in grade school?  So pathetic...

Check out Feingold on FISA:

AMY GOODMAN: Can you describe the legislation that the Senate is considering, is expected to pass by Friday?

SEN. RUSS FEINGOLD: Well, this is a great blow to the rights of the American people. And much of the publicity has been about a very important aspect: giving these telephone companies immunity that cooperated with the President's illegal program. We think that should be decided based on current law, not some kind of a retroactive immunity. But that's essentially what this bill does.

But you know what? Even worse are the provisions of the bill that will make it very easy for the government to essentially suck up the communications, all communications of Americans that go overseas, whether it's an email or a text message or a phone call to a daughter, junior year abroad, or a child who's in Iraq or a reporter or a business associate. This is one of the greatest intrusions, potentially, on the rights of Americans protected under the Fourth Amendment of the US Constitution in the history of our country.

And unfortunately, it's going to go through with the help of some Democrats. So this is a very, very sad day for our Constitution and for our rights, and it's not justified by the terrorism issue, because we do not have any problem at all with going after anybody that we have reasonable suspicions about. It has to do with sucking all this information into a huge database in a way that is very intrusive on the privacy of all Americans.
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NOW that's a Senator and a true American!

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by: FortFun @ Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 18:59:32 PM CDT